Life and pondering the merits of a NO REFUND CULTURE
No Refund Culture: Not so Proud door policy (see 100% redemption update at end of post)
It’s Friday night and a few of the office gang decided to pop out for a wrap-up the week drink. We decided to go to Proud – oh the irony.
Now Proud is a bit of a Camden institution and has shifted to another part of the market. It is now in a fantastic venue – with a huge dance floor / stage area and a great bar area in the old stables – all terribly cool. It is the last time I am going to pop in.
My colleague and I popped in at 7:27, while two others hung back and put in calls to get ‘passes’ for a few drinks from their respective partner. I had a look around and was really impressed by the decor and general ambience – the place was virtually empty this early in the evening so it was quick and easy to survey the general coolness. At 7:31 the other two hadn’t come in. So I dashed back to the door to find them haggling to get in without having to pay.
Apparently they charge to get in after 7:30, and despite the fact that the door dolly acknowledged that she saw them hanging out on the phone, and saw the advanced party go in she was insistent that they needed to pay (and was really rude in the process).
Guess what, no refund culture rules. Having asked her politely to reconsider and her saying no, I smiled and lead the gang away to another totally great bar – with no dopey door dolly. We spent at least £40 on a couple of rounds of drinks and then all went off on our merry way home.
I’m not going back to Proud – they won’t miss me, they don’t care. It might be cool, it might be a destination, but you know what they have competition. They have staff allowed to act stupidly and damage their business. You reap what you sow.
UPDATE (two days later): Over the weekend I got two emails from Alex at Proud Camden (plus see his comment below). Guess what PROUD DOES CARE. Basically a promoter pays £3,000 to hire the venue (and she is probably the lady on the door) and after 7:30 pm she is able to charge and earn back the large sum of money that she has invested. It was irritating to be on the end of this door policy but you can see the sense in it (we are in a major recession and this lady is being an entrepreneur and will need to make her money back). Thank you Alex at Proud for explaining this. Proud is clearly a venue that does care (a lot). Next time on a Friday after work drink we will need to get there earlier!
Crump learning:
I need to explain the ‘No Refund Culture” thing much more – it confused the hell out of Alex (I can see why). One good learning from this post is that given the opportunity to explain my Grump they did explain themselves and as a result I hold them in much higher regard than I did before – I will now make an effort to go to Proud – I loved the venue – the management clearly DO care – just got to see if they pour a good pint now ;+)
July 18, 2009 - 10:10 am
Ha ha. I have written on the very issue of Camden destination venues on my blog, particularly exploring the problems of the newly named ‘Camden Head’. http://tinyurl.com/destination-no-no
The general point is that these places sacrifice regular, high spending local business for the promise of high footfall tourist traffic. Bad idea. In addition, the door gimps at Proud had probably hired the venue and are not full time staff and therefore have the ability to damage the institution’s reputation without reprise from the owners.
Whilst I agree that the new market is fabulous, I do hope it does not shift the focus of all local businesses in this manner.
July 19, 2009 - 8:21 pm
Very Unfair! Mid week we let locals in free up to 9pm and often later if we know them! But on a Friday night the promoter has paid over £3000 to put on bands and Djs and entertainment and he has the right to charge! As a famous music venue we dont really get tourists at night and most people come and pay to see bands or djs etc. Mid week we are more like a normal pub and its a more local crowd. YOu cant be all things to all people. But no one was harmed, we simply did as advertised and were polite about it. Some nights you want to go the pub, some nights you dress up and pay to see a band or dance. We all make our choices and I hardly think this makes us odd or wrong. if we cancelled all our acts and simly were free and had recorded music we would annoy another bunch of people. We try to tread halfway, I am sorry you find that so offensive.
Best
Alex Proud
July 20, 2009 - 9:35 am
Hi Alex,
I have had a number of good nights in Proud and do like the venue, that is why the type of experience discussed in this post is so off putting. At the end of the day, everything is a business and that all makes sense, the simple thing is that people do not need to be rude. I understand that door staff often deal with drunken people so they may not feel it is necessary to be eloquent, but at 1930 in the evening, all she needed to do is explain the door policy rather than be snotty.
So I think your half way treading is fine, that is not offensive, it is just that people do not need to be rude to people who regularly spend money in venues.
p.s. I’m sure as a famous music venue, you do get tourists at night, otherwise what is the point of being a famous venue?
July 20, 2009 - 10:57 am
Hi
No one should be rude I agree! But Neil does not say we were rude? And I hate it if they are, I totally agree!
Thanks to both of you for listening to “our” side. Your comments help us understand how important manners are on the door!
July 20, 2009 - 10:53 pm
We have a happy ending folks.
January 9, 2010 - 11:57 am
nice post. thanks.